TT/JJ First Position

[TroyC]

Wonder what most peoples thoughts are on TT/JJ in first position;
What [amount] do you raise?
Do you limp? [muck]?
What do you do if re-raised?


Now, I know the standard poker answer of "depends" & it depends even more if it's cash/tourney/sng but let's just use the following as some starting points:::

CASH
$3/5 NL, sitting with bout 650 behind -- everyone [but one] at the table has you covered;
Table likes action but isn't really at the far end of loose-agressive;


SNG [2table/18person]
Still fairly early on, you're at bout 2100, there's a few that have you covered, and a short stack [650] that's 3 to your left

Tourney
You're down to the final 2 tables of ~10 table tourney [18/90]; You're a little below average stack & new to the table [just broke down to 2 tables] you know 3 of the guys are solid and there's 1 other that's loose-aggressive & seems to be luckier than hell --[sitting in BB]

So how do you play TT or JJ??????

[TroyC]

LOL, sorry folks... just saw the rate-this-thread thingy... played with it... nothing worse than a person marking his own thread as awesome -- LOL; I tried marking it back to poor -- but it wouldn't let me

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by TroyC

Wonder what most peoples thoughts are on TT/JJ in first position;
What [amount] do you raise?
Do you limp? [muck]?
What do you do if re-raised?


Now, I know the standard poker answer of "depends" & it depends even more if it's cash/tourney/sng but let's just use the following as some starting points:::

CASH
$3/5 NL, sitting with bout 650 behind -- everyone [but one] at the table has you covered;
Table likes action but isn't really at the far end of loose-agressive;


SNG [2table/18person]
Still fairly early on, you're at bout 2100, there's a few that have you covered, and a short stack [650] that's 3 to your left

Tourney
You're down to the final 2 tables of ~10 table tourney [18/90]; You're a little below average stack & new to the table [just broke down to 2 tables] you know 3 of the guys are solid and there's 1 other that's loose-aggressive & seems to be luckier than hell --[sitting in BB]

So how do you play TT or JJ??????

If I am reading this right, ( I am very tired been playing live, bricks and morter for 2 days) This is a Tournament, below average Stack, and you can afford the buy-in, for me its a 5xBB raise looking for a allin-call, I cann't see any other way to play it in a Inernet Tournament.

Cash or a live Tournament is a diffrent matter if its over £3/£6 I would have to limp and see a flop, If I got re-Raised I think if its (The Raise) under 25% of your stack call, over fold.

My 2 c I may play it diffrent tomorrow, Like I said I am Tired~~~

Regards

GT

[Sandman2369]

I always like 10s or Js, though I prefer Ks and As.
1st Scenario - I raise two to three times big blind, discouraging action from someone who might suck out on you. Any calls, depending on your read of the players, signifies an equally or better strong hand. A re-raise, depending on the size, might make me lay it down. Again it depends on if you know who you are playing agains.

2nd Scenario - Most SNGs people are trying to make the money, and you may be able to steal this pot outright with a 3 to 4 times big blind raise. Any calls and you know you are up against something strong. Same with a re-raise.

3rd Scenario - How have you played the rest of the tourney. Good chance someone has a read on you, just like you have a read on them. I might try to limp here, hoping to hit the flop and then bet it hard. Miss the flop and I would get out.

However, all of the above might be rubbish when faced with it in a real situation. Mood, time, hours of sleep, could all play a roll in the actual outcome.

Sandman

[wobuffet]

1
I assume this is full ring? I limp and reevaluate. If I get to a flop for just 1xbb, I need to consider that my opponents put me on a wide range, and I'm underrepresented.

2
Early = small blinds = I limp

3
Depends if we're in the money / on the payout structure.

[SCDJ]

I have lost who knows how much cash to the darn A-rag 3 outer when holding TT or JJ that i have already lost count, I hate BOTH hands, lol

Unless a little set flops, then we have a monsta!

[PapaStudMuffin]

I played Omaha, once and saw a friend in the first position, flop 4 Aces. Then, lose to a Royal Flush.
She lost 10 mil in that hand. Thank God
It was pladoh.

gl, in any position

PapaStudMuffin

[Cracker]

I usaly raise 4xBB if I get re-raised I call, I like to keep things basic, Every time I suffer from fancy play syndome with JJ TT I lose. anyway ...

[luzipher]

Originally Posted by PapaStudMuffin

I played Omaha, once and saw a friend in the first position, flop 4 Aces. Then, lose to a Royal Flush.
She lost 10 mil in that hand. Thank God
It was pladoh.

gl, in any position

PapaStudMuffin

Gosh!
Of course, he lose a Royal Flush in Omaha with AAAA.
Was he playing "personal rules" Omaha?

[vtcon2000]

CASH:
this one is the easiest answer.....CHECK/CALL if you hit your set and you didn't see a raise the whole time POT Bet the river and if you have the HIGH set call any raise. If the table is beating your pockets continue to call behind and hope that the person is drawing or middle pairs and if they go all in on the river and its more than you can afford to lose fold and wait for better cards. A split ace can whoop middle pockets in like five seconds. If someone leads out strong with the Ace or King or Queen, especially if you gain a possible running straight out call at least the turn, if you hit the turn check/call and hope the stupid person goes all in after hitting two pair on the river or something. LEAVE CASH TABLE IMMEDIATELY afterwards as they are the kiss of death for all Bankrolls. BEWARE of the check/raise with middle pockets!

SNG:
I usually prefer to triple the blind with a hand in SNG's. You are either in or out no middle ground draw betting, calling for draws, and calling just to see flops since its the quickest way to bleed a stack in sprint tourneys. so if BB was 200 I would bet 650 pre-flop. then follow the same rules as CASH, this avoids short stack raising the extra 50 above 3xBB and pissing everyone off after they called 600 and have to throw in 50 more.(this may result in a pre-flop all in with crap cards, which can deceivingly beat your high pair JACKS or TENS

TOURNEY:
This is the hardest situation of the 3. If you are going to bet you are most likely all in. Since you are not BB I would not recommend betting any more than you need to to see if you hit a set or not, so call the BB. Most likely BB will raise you all in. If he does fold immediately and wait for better cards. Now that he thinks its easy to get you to fold he will continue to do so until you have ACES or maybe Kings or King Queen Suited and can afford to call him. If he calls follow same rules as cash, except BET STRONG even if you don't hit your set on the flop. This will most likely avoid him going all in on a draw but, given his luck might get a call. Then if you do hit your set on the turn, Bet small with a trap. If the experienced players are in at this point they will either fold or call, but likely BB hit something like an ace or tripped on his low kicker or something and he will raise all in and then you are set.
The best Play in a tourney is always FOLD. tourneys are about outlasting others not outscoring others. If you aren't happy to just consistently slide into the money and then attempt a big move then you should find something else to do with your time

Discipline is key as I didn't listen to my own advice last night. I had Pocket JACKS with 11 left and only 5 were In the Money and I was in 7th. I 6x blinded it and someone re-raised all in with more money than me. I knew they had split cards and so I called without taking time to think. The guy hit an ace with BIG SLICK. I was ahead 8-1 and lost miserably. The thing is people are always willing to risk it big in poker and if you can lose a few or a bunch of small pots and give up blinds and win a small amount of large pots when you set middle cards or flop straights or stuff like that, then other poeple's poor betting will always fail in the end.