I have come Home early from a Live game and this is why!

[GypsyTea]

No hand Histroy it was a live game

7K starting chips re-buy £10: Blinds 100/50

7 or 8 hands in I am DB-2

My hand AA
checked around to me 4 in the pot FLOP 27Q
sb checks
bb checks
I raise into a £400 pot £600
every one folds bar the small blind who thinks about it for a while....
2 in a £1600 Pot

TURN 3

sb checks
I fire ALLIN

sb calls ???? ok I thinking the giza's got a flush owell

ON YOUR BACKS

He shows Q3 You are f**king Kidding ME !

I show my American Airlines By this time I am SCREEMING FOR A SPADE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

River J

Some times its just time to go home and talk to the Wife

I would forgive him if he had AQ.......

GT

[jeffsbabe]

Hi GT,

I'm glad you posted this. It's good for people to see these things do happen in live cards as well as online. Good thing you went home to the wife. Sounds like it wasn't your night for poker.

[GypsyTea]

Thanks Babee, I know the kid was in the blinds with top pair but man that kicker was BIZ, and his call was DISRESPECTFULL, what did the muppett think I had? anyway I didnt re-buy I had played in that card room before, but its not my Fav.

Now I think this kid didn't know what he was doing, and I have a Golden Rule,

I NEVER TEACH AT THE TABLE! EVER...Dont knock on the fish tank!

I also didnt re-buy, £10 is nothing to me, the game is every thing to me, and like you pointed out, IT didnt feel My night, I had a couple of very good "cash's" over the week end, so I think I can take some possitive stuff from this, ie:

I felt Poker was not a good idea last night,

I walked......its good if you can do this, but I am an old poker dog

Regards

[scrawnybob]

hi GT

interesting post and hand

I can see why your cheesed off with this hand - but

what was the betting action preflop ?

I only ask as there seems to have been 3 of you in the hand to see the flop - did they also call a raise preflop, I cant quite work out as BB seems to be $100 and there was I think you said $400 in the pot before the flop ? which suggests there was no preflop raising ?

if that's the case I think this is where he sneaked in the back door - on the flop alot of players (rather optomisically) would be thinking I have top pair (true) and could catch runner runner for a queen high straight (very fishy optomism) ...

I know you / I and others would be thinking I have top pair with a very weak kicker with a non existant shot at a straight (which if it hits I'm very possibly dead anyway)

I think on the flop he will have thought ...

"you were on the flush draw and he has top pair" - go for it (and see what the turn brings)

you didnt raise preflop ? so unlikely pocket KK or AA - so my QQ is ahead possibily

the biggest problem here is I think the other player when faced with your all-in on the turn may have thought through some or all of the following ...

"my hand has improved - I now have 2 pair (top and bottom) and my chances of a flush have just got better

you were on a flush draw (therefore he is maybe behind) ... but I now have two pair Godamit and that 3 spades is just about the best card I could have hoped for"

I think if any other spade had come down apart from that 3 ... he would have folded but it was just too tempting to keep going ... this IMHO is a big problem when a player gets part way through a hand that they probably should have given up (they're usually aware of that) and then get a card that they can convince themselves has really helped them out of a hole

also I have to be honest - I love a hand where I have made 2 pair and their is potential flush on the board - OK I only have 4 outs to make a full house but if it hits I absolutely know I will get all the chips - if along the way it hasnt been too expensive to keep seeing the next card and things get better along the way - then it can be worth the gamble

so I guess (and I'm often wrong) that he didnt respect you in the hand because there doesnt seem to have been any raising preflop on the hand - most players dont play AA KK very subtly (partly because its safer to play them hard preflop) but following that logic they dont put players on hands if they dont play them in the same way they would (if that makes any sense)

nasty hand for you though

cheers scrawnybob

[witl69]

What a n atrocious hand of pure bad luck, I mean anyway I know I for one will play funny little cards that most will fold if they are connectors of some sort but ... that was a terrible weak hand for anyone and pute good luck on there part ...

[GypsyTea]

hi GT

interesting post and hand

I can see why your cheesed off with this hand - but

what was the betting action preflop ?

I only ask as there seems to have been 3 of you in the hand to see the flop - did they also call a raise preflop, I cant quite work out as BB seems to be $100 and there was I think you said $400 in the pot before the flop ? which suggests there was no preflop raising ?

if that's the case I think this is where he sneaked in the back door - on the flop alot of players (rather optomisically) would be thinking I have top pair (true) and could catch runner runner for a queen high straight (very fishy optomism) ...

I know you / I and others would be thinking I have top pair with a very weak kicker with a non existant shot at a straight (which if it hits I'm very possibly dead anyway)

I think on the flop he will have thought ...

"you were on the flush draw and he has top pair" - go for it (and see what the turn brings)

you didnt raise preflop ? so unlikely pocket KK or AA - so my QQ is ahead possibily

the biggest problem here is I think the other player when faced with your all-in on the turn may have thought through some or all of the following ...

"my hand has improved - I now have 2 pair (top and bottom) and my chances of a flush have just got better

you were on a flush draw (therefore he is maybe behind) ... but I now have two pair Godamit and that 3 spades is just about the best card I could have hoped for"

I think if any other spade had come down apart from that 3 ... he would have folded but it was just too tempting to keep going ... this IMHO is a big problem when a player gets part way through a hand that they probably should have given up (they're usually aware of that) and then get a card that they can convince themselves has really helped them out of a hole

also I have to be honest - I love a hand where I have made 2 pair and their is potential flush on the board - OK I only have 4 outs to make a full house but if it hits I absolutely know I will get all the chips - if along the way it hasnt been too expensive to keep seeing the next card and things get better along the way - then it can be worth the gamble

so I guess (and I'm often wrong) that he didnt respect you in the hand because there doesnt seem to have been any raising preflop on the hand - most players dont play AA KK very subtly (partly because its safer to play them hard preflop) but following that logic they dont put players on hands if they dont play them in the same way they would (if that makes any sense)

nasty hand for you though

cheers scrawnybob

Hi Bob

I probably didn't explain this well last night, anyway 4 in the pot the 2 blinds, me and the DB smooth called =£400 ( I equate buy-in currency to chip currency, its easyer for me to calculate the connotations in my head, I will explain this in a diffrent post!)

Now I slowrolled the bullets, I like to play at the turn, so I do tend to see flops a lot, I personally would not of defended my small blind with Q3off, for £50/chips in the 1st 2 blind levels, but thats me, 10 seat table, I would wait..anyway you are right there is a little more risk slowrolling a big pocket, and I feel position is crucial -2DB is borderlinning slowroll/Raise territory,

Would this guy of defended his small blind if I would of raised, I dont know, if I had to put a bet on it, I would give it 60/40 he would do. What through me was the time he took to call when I tryed to bully him of the hand, I had the guy on a set of 2' or 7''s, I could put him on AQ because I feel he would of re-raised, I also feel he had me on QA,QK etc,

I not hacked off with him I am more hacked off with my timing and the fact I went allin meant I was not thinking right, I had just swiged a redbull and vodka so I am re thinking I may of been Adrenalin'ed UP, Like I said I had, had a heavy weekend, and on the back of 2 cash's over £500+ each, I took my eye of the ball and got cockie!

Lessons:

1/ NO BODY IS OMNIPOTENT !

2/ Dont take any game for granted no matter what the buy-in is (£10+5 is cheep poker)

3/ Dont out think YOURSELF on a hand with a stranger, Not ever one playes ROCK SOLID POST FLOP AGGRESION

4/Shit Happens so get over it....

Regards Bob

Catch you later

GT

OBTW small club poker usualy have people playing who have made the effort to play and they know how to play, more so in the front/middle part of the week, I find a lot of Dealer Buttons tend to not put in a "button raise" in the smallish blind limits..Interesting

[scrawnybob]

hi GT

I guess that I should have paraphrased my previous posts to ...
(like this is going to be shorter lol)

I totally agree with you on the hand and the player was a muppet even topping off the SB with Q3 off

but these players dont unfortunately think like us ;-)

and this looks very similar to something I see alot in our regular(ish) home game ... in that at least a couple of the players will near always complete the SB ... including with a beer mat and a bottle top (they certainly dont need good cards) and even more scarily will call up to 4x BB with anything approaching a playable hand

then their strategy (such as it is) seems to be if they catch any kind of a hand (or possibility of a hand) from the flop & or the turn - they will keep going at almost any price

it's really illogical to us - but having listened to their rational when they have dealt me out similar bad beats to the one you've outlined ...

there is clearly a mindset that whilst we should never do the same ... these players do somehow think they are valid in what they are doing

so crazy to us but in their head even a marginal improvement in their hand keeps them in

next time you'll break em

cheers scrawnybob

[jctm1988]

Believe me , pall , if it was my home game, and i had the aces, slow playing them , which i might have done, 3x bb , and this donk calls with q3 , i surely LOL ( cut out ) peep peep , lol peep, imao , police sirens , lol , people trying to hold me down , ahhh youuuu **** peep, and then im in jail , thinking , why ?


LOL





Na just kidding , it it aint funny.
And your right, when it's not your day it's not your day , and then not playing poker is wise of you, since the hand before could have made your judgement throught out the game feel bad, or not correct, or you would make a mistake in a hand ... Which we all can do ...

My advice , AA , KK preflop with the blinds so low - 10 x big blind .
But that's my opinion , i dont want no q9 - j10 in the hand, i want or 1 or max 2 players in the hand when im holding aces, my hand value goes down with aces if more then 3 people see the flop , but you already know that , ok my point , you want to make it look like your squeeze playing with AK AQ suited, and the hand variations you want to be in action with is , lower pocket pairs , doesnt matter kk qq jj .. , any ace x , that almost probally it, then again some suited connectors hu wouldnt be bad aswell , since most of the times on the flop he would have a drawing hand , and you let him pay to see the next cards.

I can go on and on , Hope you meet him the next time , and then take all his chips !


JCTM1988

[willie beaman]

This is a spot where the preflop action shoulda been aggressive. The problem with limping with aces is that too many hands will improve, such as q3 post flop and leaves no improvement for your hand. Especially with 3 other opponents in and AA, play this hand isolated with one opponent. I prefer a pot-sized raise here to get loose hands out of the way and punish those who want to hang around.

[dak76]

Hi all

Interesting thread, playing live is a unique experience, playing live with mediocre players is another unique experience and very teach full one!

Adapting to worst players is presently my biggest problem.
Why?
Because when I tilt, I can some times put in doubt everything I studied in the past months, all my poker insights and concepts for moments are transformed in bullshit!
I sometimes even make the mistake to think "it's not worth it blabla cause any sucker can do it like they do, so why bother studying or playing solid / TAG if coin flipping rules yabadabadaba"

It's a different pressure, you do the right moves, they do the wrong moves but get their outs not knowing what just happened, so your arguments are useless for them, and their arguments echoes, like "I could get my pair, I knew it the second pair was comming, I thought I had the best hand, I had a FEELING (arghhhh)"

Biggest lesson when playing novices / mediocre live players?

It's ME the one who has to adapt to those players, maybe with unconventional playing, even if I have to play my B poker instead of my A poker (I mean, playing worst to win). I find luck facing skill more times than skill vs skill.
ex:
- by not value betting to often, there isn't pot odds in their math, and a pair is enough for them to see all streets and then suckme out on river
- bluffing will destroy my stack, 'cause they can call with K or Q high when you're representing a strong hand
- Cbets, again you can take lots of calls in your cbets, they don't put you in a range or hand, they only see their cards
- sometimes it's better to just check check check and take a several smaller pots, and wait for their mistake

other important lessons:

1/ NO BODY IS OMNIPOTENT !

2/ Dont take any game for granted no matter what the buy-in is (£10+5 is cheep poker)

3/ Dont out think YOURSELF on a hand with a stranger, Not ever one playes ROCK SOLID POST FLOP AGGRESION

4/Shit Happens so get over it....

see ya