what is your opinion of my move

[kingjames07]

here is a hand from a tourny i was in last nighti will post part of it and you tell me your opinion of my move b4 i post the rest.... then i will post the out come.....just so you know i was ridiculed for doing this in messenger.....the person told me "that was a stupid move...you never reraise after someone has already called an all in"




Full Tilt Poker Game #6524398135: (48906260), Table 2 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:34:06 ET - 2008/05/22
Seat 1: wv_marlee_kev (1,930), is sitting out
Seat 2: I Eat Squirts (3,220)
Seat 3: 0631rocky (1,790)
Seat 4: Butterfly_Kzz (3,025)
Seat 6: ronsmob (990)
Seat 7: Little MB2 (2,310)
Seat 8: kingjames07 (1,600)
Seat 9: MirishC76 (1,325)
kingjames07 posts the small blind of 30
MirishC76 posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kingjames07 [9c 9h]
wv_marlee_kev folds
I Eat Squirts folds
0631rocky folds
Butterfly_Kzz calls 60
ronsmob raises to 990, and is all in
Little MB2 calls 990
kingjames07: wow
kingjames07 has 15 seconds left to act
kingjames07 raises to 1,600, and is all in
MirishC76 folds
Butterfly_Kzz: allin or fold huh
Butterfly_Kzz: dammit
Butterfly_Kzz has 15 seconds left to act
Butterfly_Kzz has requested TIME
Butterfly_Kzz folds
Little MB2 calls 610
kingjames07 shows [9c 9h]

ronsmob was short stacked and goin all in gettin no callers every other hand
Little MB2 was playing tight but i wanted her out of the hand

[TroyC]

So personally, I would have folded; reasoning to follow:::

First of, I like 99, it's a made hand [compared to AK/AQ], however comma there are a bunch of overs-- this is important, more on that later on.

First there was a push and then a call; The call scares me. Typically the QQ/KK/AA will call, not wanting to reduce action; While it can be dangerous to have your AA v. 3 other hands, % wise you're still better off -- and, IMHO, the better players like to have an exit strategy [you weren't at the final table/money point etc]; I have more than once laid down AsAd when the flop & turn has come all clubs. Exit strategy is important -- AK suited will often "meet up" with AA;

Anyhow, the initial raise may just be a J6o, but it could also be TT/JJ, The call probably is NOT J6o, but in the top 10% range of AK-AJ, AA-JJ.

So, with at least one of them if not both of em having AK/AQ/AA/KK/QQ/JJ & maybe AT you're 99 isn't looking so great.
Any PP TT and above and you're now a 4-1 underdog! Not getting your money in w/ the best of it; 5 pp that you're a 4-1 underdog to, and then Any AK-AT; KQ-KT that's basically a coin flip.

So then you re-raise, with while an above ave hand, it's very vulnerable; and why? player-mb2 is pot committed. He's got a pot of 3600 [990 of which was his...but once the action is past him...it's JUST the pot], and now needs to call the remaining 610? INSTA-CALL!!!

Total guess -- but if player-mb2 has QQ, he's loving your push, as it's highly unlikely that you have AA, if he's on QQ. [agreed it does happen, but when it does -- it's referred to as a cold-deck, because it doesn't happen enough to be common.]

One last thought... Risk v. Reward; I don't remember which book I read it in, but it had a bunch of chapters on things like REM [range/expectation/maximization] --

YOU POSTED 30!!!! All you had was 30 invested; You're a coin flip at best, and you're risking your stack for 30 invested. Patience is the hardest part of poker IMHO.

----------------
You haven't stated the outcome, and I know you stated donk-ronsmob was going all-in everytime...but he's the short stack... not a complete donkey move... it's enough to make it a tough call and you stated "every other" meaining it wasn't necessarily any-two-cards... We've all had runs where we've had AK, KQ, TT, AT, then QQ then back to the J6o K3o; possible to be on a heater...and JT is going to push as well... he's trying to 2x up or go home.

-----------------
Let's say player-mb2 didn't call.... still a fold from me; if you call and his K3o hits his K, or gets even luckier and it comes 336, then you're now at what? 710? Now you're "the donk" going all-in on anything to get un-stuck.

personally, I would've only made the call QQ/KK/AA; any AX is a drawing hand... personally that's the biggest prob with AK, peeps forget IT'S A DRAWING HAND.

-------------
Looking forward to hearing how it went down...

TroyC

[kingjames07]

another reply or 2 i will post the outcome

[TroyC]

So, I critiqued [not criticized ] your play... but I never did actually answer you question.

Re-raising an all-in.

In general::: Blah!! I think a re-raise is totally acceptable. You're in it to win it, not be friends with these people.

Now I think it helps to realize why a re-raise is not _effective_ in your situation.

First you probably are a coin-flip; and as such, you're pushing on someone pot-committed.

if you had AA/KK/QQ, then a re-raise is correct. If you had 9K to mb2's 4K and there was 1.5K in the pot, then yea, push hard, but pushing against the bigger stack -- prob not the best use of chips.

I know in tourney play, the idea is to knock players out "together"; and I'm more of a cash game guy...

[kingjames07]

ok since the others i saw online don't seem interested in replyin.....i thought for sure Jacks would reply but he is gone now......so here is the rest of the hand


kingjames07 shows [9c 9h]
ronsmob shows [Tc Ad]
Little MB2 shows [Ah Ac]
*** FLOP *** [6h 6s 9d]
*** TURN *** [6h 6s 9d] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [6h 6s 9d 5c] [6c]
kingjames07 shows a full house, Nines full of Sixes
Little MB2 shows a full house, Sixes full of Aces
kingjames07 wins the side pot (1,220) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
ronsmob shows three of a kind, Sixes
kingjames07 wins the main pot (3,090) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
ronsmob: nh
ronsmob stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,310 Main pot 3,090. Side pot 1,220. | Rake 0
Board: [6h 6s 9d 5c 6c]
Seat 1: wv_marlee_kev didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: I Eat Squirts didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: 0631rocky didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Butterfly_Kzz folded before the Flop
Seat 6: ronsmob showed [Tc Ad] and lost with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 7: Little MB2 (button) showed [Ah Ac] and lost with a full house, Sixes full of Aces
Seat 8: kingjames07 (small blind) showed [9c 9h] and won (4,310) with a full house, Nines full of Sixes
Seat 9: MirishC76 (big blind) folded before the Flop


a sick/lucky/fulltilt flop for ya

P.S: i see jacks is replyin now....lol

[jacks_off4me]

No probs KJ.
First, you must had a very good read on that littlemb2, for not going to call your re-raise there because ronsmob probably threw the all-in with any hand starting from 3's, any trouble hand or even any ace and you probably are ahead of him pre-flop.

very dangerous because 9's are a gambling hand itself so 1: you already are in a showdown with someone already all-in, and you are risking your whole tournament on a line on a middle hand against bigger stack if she'd call.

I dont know if you won or lost, but anyway you fished there a little buddy

[youngwayne]

i think it is a bad idea for reasons stated by troy he pretty much nailed it....you are almost always behind there with 99 IMO

[luzipher]

Originally Posted by kingjames07

ronsmob was short stacked and goin all in gettin no callers every other hand
Little MB2 was playing tight but i wanted her out of the hand

mmm, I think that there was no way to force MB2 out of the hand preflop, perhaps was better an allin after flop (depending on flop, obviously)

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by kingjames07

here is a hand from a tourny i was in last nighti will post part of it and you tell me your opinion of my move b4 i post the rest.... then i will post the out come.....just so you know i was ridiculed for doing this in messenger.....the person told me "that was a stupid move...you never reraise after someone has already called an all in"




Full Tilt Poker Game #6524398135: (48906260), Table 2 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:34:06 ET - 2008/05/22
Seat 1: wv_marlee_kev (1,930), is sitting out
Seat 2: I Eat Squirts (3,220)
Seat 3: 0631rocky (1,790)
Seat 4: Butterfly_Kzz (3,025)
Seat 6: ronsmob (990)
Seat 7: Little MB2 (2,310)


Seat 8: kingjames07 (1,600)---------------->30/60 Pot of 90 per round-----90 into 1600 so you have 16 points = YELLOW ZONE, You need to be in the GreenZone 1 doubble up and you are in The Green Zone! You Do Have an Inflection Point at this stage!


Seat 9: MirishC76 (1,325)
kingjames07 posts the small blind of 30
MirishC76 posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***


Dealt to kingjames07 [9c 9h]---------->SB----------->
wv_marlee_kev folds
I Eat Squirts folds
0631rocky folds
Butterfly_Kzz calls 60
ronsmob raises to 990, and is all in
Little MB2 calls 990
kingjames07: wow
kingjames07 has 15 seconds left to act


kingjames07 raises to 1,600, and is all in-------------> Read Above! Yellow Zone allin for a Bust or a Green Zone Inflection Point! GREAT RE-RAISE! If you lose against ron, You have some side pot equity.


MirishC76 folds
Butterfly_Kzz: allin or fold huh
Butterfly_Kzz: dammit
Butterfly_Kzz has 15 seconds left to act
Butterfly_Kzz has requested TIME
Butterfly_Kzz folds
Little MB2 calls 610
kingjames07 shows [9c 9h]

ronsmob was short stacked and goin all in gettin no callers every other hand
Little MB2 was playing tight but i wanted her out of the hand

MHO:- James GREAT PLAY, Not sure if you know what I am going on about Inflection Points and Colour Tourament Zones, but Its a GREAT Play.

GT

[kingjames07]

ummmmmmmmm yeah kinda sorta think i do...lol

luckily for me no Ace appeared anywhere on the board as you can see from the 2nd part of the hand i posted....i just "had a feeling" on the hand....sometimes ya just gota go with the feeling

P.S: GT how did ya do in Moscow???