Inflection, Action Dan, Strategy Tournaments

[GypsyTea]

Inflection, Action Dan, Strategy Hold'em Tournaments

Dan Harrington Introduced a system for whether its a good idea, at any given time in a Hold'em Tournament to make a play, The system also high lights which types of "plays" are available to you at ( any given point) in time of the said tournament.

Harrington parodies thease plays with some of the ball plays in American FootBall. Ackward if you do not "dig" American Foot Ball Terms.

Recommended reading:-

Harrington on Holdem Expert Strategy for No-Limit Tournaments 3 volume's
ISDN-13 978-1-880685-35-8 2+2 publishing LLC.


So The History of it all

Doyle Brunson in super system muted an idea, that there is a mathematical relationship between how many chips you have compared with how many chips all the other players have, and an all in relationship to the blind + any ante's posted in a live hold'em tournament, and this should influence the way you play any given hand.

Paul Magriel seems to have put a name to it and made a formula to calculate all of the above towards the end of a tournament. Its name is known as Magriels "M"

Dan Harrington, "thinks this is the most important single number that governs your play." [quote]

Action Dan also came up with another number he calls Q, its now acepted as Harringtons "Q" and it is:- "The ratio of your stack to the average number of chips left for each player."

Action Dan says that "M" is the "STRONG FORCE" and "Q" is the "WEAK FORCE"

So very basically Harrington says a HIGH Q is GOOD and a LOW Q means you have to do some thing soon or you are walking to the bar.

He also says When "M" conflicts with "Q" go with the STRONG FORCE ie go with "M" so when I said in another thread 99 re-raise allin with a not good and a not bad chip stack I went with "M", Jacksoff4me, went with "Q", This does'nt mean I was right and Jacks was wrong, its down to what you see at any given time as "The Correct Play" a matter of opinion.

THIS IS why this is a GOOD FORUM to be a member of, we are not frightened to talk about poker issues. Also it means that THIS forums poker content is evolving, so that makes it have VERY GOOD poker content, unlike other forums. Anyway I digress:-


So: What next?<rhetoric question>


Action Dan makes sense of all this maths and develops Zone's.

THE GREEN ZONE: M= 20+

THE YELLOW ZONE: M=10 TO 20

THE ORANGE ZONE: M=6 TO 10

THE RED ZONE: M=1 TO 5

THE DEAD ZONE: M= LESS THAN 1


FORMULA FOR M

M= STACK/SMALL BLIND+BIG BLIND+TOTAL ANTES.

So how does all this zone parafinalia help US? <r>

Well Action Dans going to tell us and its all advanced holdem stuff, so I hope I am not boring anyone at this point! anyway:-

YOUR PLAYS:

M is Green:- The most Righteous Place to be, You have total freedom to bully, do a few cheap donk calls and suck outs, to knock some one out, and you can either go to a sleeping Rock or go to Terminator Aggressive.

M is Yellow:- Now you have to take a risk or two, "[so small pairs" NB*] and suited connectors, should start to look like a monster hand. Start making some moves.

M is Orange:- What ever you decide to play, make sure your the 1st in and preserve you chip stack.

M is Red:- Theres only one thing to do and its pick your time for "The Hail Mary Play" or as we say in the UK "The UP and UNDER" GOOD LUCK I am ALLIN ! Dig it babee?

M is Dead:- and so are YOU! push all in any 2 will do in ANY EMPTY POT.

Regards All, Hope this helps

Playwell

Gypsy

copyright 4kingpoker.com all rights reserved

*NB- Please Note I made a mistake in the typing of this script small pairs should read High Pairs! Harrington says you should be more conserative with your small pair play in the Yellow Zone and Orange Zone!. GT <hold my hands up>

Thank you NUCKING FUTS 4 for pointing this out to me, Outstanding work in the forward defence, covering the Quarter Back ! Nice 1 Nuc

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

A very good expansion of my attempts to help a request in another thread.

Very good GT. This makes it much clearer for those that were a little confused.

Though I would add the whole series of Action Dan's books to the recommended reading.

If i'm correct the main dicussion of the system is in Volume II with practical usage in Volume II & III.

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by NUCKING_FUTS_4

A very good expansion of my attempts to help a request in another thread.

Very good GT. This makes it much clearer for those that were a little confused.

Though I would add the whole series of Action Dan's books to the recommended reading.

If i'm correct the main dicussion of the system is in Volume II with practical usage in Volume II & III.

Yes Nuc Thanks for your comments,

you are right, I find it heavy going along with Phill Gordens green & blue books, with all the hand historys to be honest

Regards

GT

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Originally Posted by GypsyTea

Yes Nuc Thanks for your comments,

you are right, I find it havey going along with Phill Gordens green & blue books, with all the hand historys to be honest

Regards

GT

Ah, you know me too well Gypsy.

I've read those too. For beginning poker players there are no better volumes to sink your teeth into.

I find Phil G's slightly more entertaining and easier to read. I think highly of the way he presents the situations you can fid yourself in at the table and the methods of play, much easier for a beginner to recognise and adapt.

Dan's series is the bible for the brains and would recommend it to beginners that wish to take their game a little more seriously.

But like every other system it has its limitations. Poker to me is about situations and no system could ever hope to encapsulate all the factors into a set of rules etc, but for a framework on which to begin to judge a situation I've yet to see anything better.

[jacks_off4me]

is there formula for Q also GT?

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by NUCKING_FUTS_4

Ah, you know me too well Gypsy.

I've read those too. For beginning poker players there are no better volumes to sink your teeth into.

I find Phil G's slightly more entertaining and easier to read. I think highly of the way he presents the situations you can fid yourself in at the table and the methods of play, much easier for a beginner to recognise and adapt.

Dan's series is the bible for the brains and would recommend it to beginners that wish to take their game a little more seriously.

But like every other system it has its limitations. Poker to me is about situations and no system could ever hope to encapsulate all the factors into a set of rules etc, but for a framework on which to begin to judge a situation I've yet to see anything better.

I agree with you Nuc.

The interesting thing about "The Beautiful Game" (Poker) is the Human interreaction makes a robotic system nearly impossible to be 100% correct, There is allways going to be a player that fancy's 53 suited and has no maths for the play, just a gut feeling.

Will a Poker Bot ever be the winner of the Main event??? I doubt it in My life time, but I have been known to be wrong

GT

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by jacks_off4me

is there formula for Q also GT?

Yes sorry Jacks I ment to put it in the OP:-

Your Stack/The Average Stack in the tournament

Your stacks £100,000.00
AVTS £ 25,000.00

Your Q=4 any one in this above tournament with a Q of under 4 you start to move on them, Any one with a Q of 4 or over 4 you try not to get involved with them with a crummy starting hand.

Now I think this is where Starting Hand Critera comes in, and Observation of Players betting patens, and there hand selection, starts to get important.

Now the other night I won a holdem torunament ( live) I noticed this Lady was betting any ACE x and She had a Q of 6 I had a Q of 5.7, Normaly I wouln't want to mix it up with this Q with out having a large PP or AKs, so in my BB I see her UTG+4 fire a 1/2 pot raise in, I had T9 Clubs.

I call, Pond comes down 2 clubs with an Ace of clubs and cut a long story sort I won her st8 with my flush and Nuked her Ass into The DEAD ZONE.

I promise I forgot all about M and Q and just played the old way I knew what she had within a few possible starting hands.

GT

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Originally Posted by GypsyTea

I agree with you Nuc.

The interesting thing about "The Beautiful Game" (Poker) is the Human interreaction makes a robotic system nearly impossible to be 100% correct, There is allways going to be a player that fancy's 53 suited and has no maths for the play, just a gut feeling.

Will a Poker Bot ever be the winner of the Main event??? I doubt it in My life time, but I have been known to be wrong

GT

Well you've a few years ahead of you yet GT

Interesting point though. I'm sure it was only recently that they cracked Draughts/Checkers. Not as complex as Poker for sure but they now have a computer that no-one can beat, only draw or loose to. Chess is well on its way to being broken too, though expectations are within a decade.

For sure math is an important part of the game, but as can be seen from previous experience of others, even the greatest, sharpest mathematical mind doesn't bring it all to you at the felt. Knowledge, experience, and guts do it all the more readily.

[scrawnybob]

hi all

great thread - really interesting as alot of the Q and M stuff is a detailed and mathmatical approach to micro managed some of the broader ideas of poker

ie. dont take on big stacks (even if your a similar big stack) ... then explained in a much more micro managed way to really establish where the line is between what makes sense and what doesn't

ie. understand the actual value of your chips is different at different stages of a tournament and against different players

As I've said before - reading any and all poker advice (provided its not just complete tosh) is always going to help your game ... the more you think, look at others ideas, read books etc the more you will be thinking about poker and the more the basic stuff will become second nature while you try to get your head round other concepts and ideas

another great thread GT

on the maths front - while maths and understanding maths is esential to poker (even if you then play by feel - you'll be using maths and not realise it) ...

however chess and draughts is essentially all about maths and the most mathmatically elastic and mentally agile will win ... so its not really a suprise they can make computers that can out think humans at chess or checkers

I dont think while they have tried and been quite successful that they will be able to do this with poker as its still a person game with some very strong mathmatical constraints

but poker you can still win with a totally un-mathmatically correct play or bluff ... with chess you dont see a grand master announcing knight 5 to b6 while changing a pawn to a queen and swearing blind he just wants to know if your planning to take of both bishops if he trembles while he debates his move ;-)

cheers scrawnybob

[luzipher]

Excelent post GT, really great!

Originally Posted by GypsyTea

Inflection, Action Dan, Strategy Hold'em Tournaments

THIS IS why this is a GOOD FORUM to be a member of, we are not frightened to talk about poker issues. Also it means that THIS forums poker content is evolving, so that makes it have VERY GOOD poker content, unlike other forums. Anyway I digress:-

I'm member of 4 or 5 poker's forum, but I'm active, reading threads everyday only here, exactly for that reason.

Originally Posted by GypsyTea

copyright 4kingpoker.com all rights reserved

LOL