What to do with 66 in a touney...

[jacks_off4me]

Originally Posted by katharine.wehrmann@gmail.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I cringed when I saw those in my bb bc I knew i would probably be put to the test i was with just me and monster in the hand.

I guess the better question to ask would be:

When your 66 does not hit on the flop but you know your oppenent Mr. Bigstack all inner also did not hit. Do you go all in with your marginal, albeit made hand?

Or do you check it and fold when he raises?

Again Katherine, you dont see the whole picture and not judging the situation properly IMHO.

in your speciffic situation- yes fold them now. you played them as a limper to hit and didnt and though you know your opponent did not also, the right play is to fold.


the correct play, and now try to look at the big picture is to fold them or push them PRE-FLOP bacause you cant afford to miss the flop from one hand and from the other: if you push them pre and get a call, you are creating two valuable things for yourself: 1. sparing from yourself/avoiding a tough decision on the board if you miss and 2. you are likely to get called and get a chance of 50%-50 40%-60% for your money to double up and live on or lose a race and reg to another tourney.

in these stages of the tourney, the "plays" are as important as the cards you are holding.

very good questions Jacks

[EllaGrace]

So after reading the posts, and your replies, the general consensus is it was a bad decision. I kinda knew that already, just wanted some thoughts. I read some where, that Chris Ferguson folds all pairs in tournerys JJ and below if he can't see his flop for cheap and if forced to bet before he makes his set. He said he did some tracking and he did better when he had restraint and just folded, or didn't play them at all.

Interesting thought. Next time I feel the urge to go allin with a low pocket pair, unless I am extremely low chip stack, I will show some self-presevation and just fold.

[scrawnybob]

hi

yep just to add - I got the impression that your were more of a lower end mid stack than a short stack

as a short stack your decisions are alot more clear and need to be alot more decicisive

in late postion short stacked with no apparent interest from the earlier players I would be planning to go all-in preflop with any pocket pair 88 up to JJ (I might get a bit fancier with QQ, KK or AA to ensure I got a match for all my money)

but with 66 I would be aiming just to steal the blinds with a clear cut all-in preflop no messing (or a fold would be my only other consideration)

if your down to 10x BB the blinds would be a min of 1.5 BB + any other flat calls - that would do me ... at the worst you give your image some credibility for future moves and you also cover the cost of getting round the blinds if your really struggling

if the BB or SB is stacked and / or likely to call your all-in then your probably not in bad shape (I'd be more comfortable with 88 or better)

but whatever you decide at a short stack stage the discision needs to be made pre-flop with no allowance for limping as this would just decimate your remaining stack

eg. you have 10x BB

to call an unrasied pot is going to cost you 1
to call and then have to call a 1 or 2x BB raise (from the blinds) would cost you 2 or 3

your then down to 7 or 8

you might then get stuck for half your stack on the flop and have to fold or call a 1 or 2 BB

leaving that hand your down to 5-8 BB if you fold round to the blinds your then stuck losing 1.5 BB whether you like it or not

which leaves 3.5 - 6.5 BB going into the next rotation

looking at from an all-in position ...

you have 10xBB

1.5 blinds + 2 BB from limpers (3.5 to pick up) BANG you go all-in with 66 in late postion / button

a) everyone folds - you now have 13.5 BB if you then have to fold through the blinds on the next rotation you have 12 BB (2 more than now) and you've potentially seen / going to see another 18 hands before you have to put up the blinds.

b) one player calls and you stand to double up and be in much better shape ... or out

I'm not saying you should have gone all-in absolutely ... but definately you only had two choices ... all-in preflop or fold, wait & hope for a better all-in situation

cheers scrawnybob

[EllaGrace]

Good info

Yeah, i had 3200 in chips avg was 3900. But the blinds were going up to 400, so I was getting to that decision point, as was anyone else with "average" chips. Final table time i usually like to have 6-12,000 in order to not feel desperate in this particular tourney. That all factored into my decision too.

Thanks Jacks!
And scrawny bob!

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Originally Posted by katharine.wehrmann@gmail.

Good info

Yeah, i had 3200 in chips avg was 3900. But the blinds were going up to 400, so I was getting to that decision point, as was anyone else with "average" chips. Final table time i usually like to have 6-12,000 in order to not feel desperate in this particular tourney. That all factored into my decision too.

Thanks Jacks!
And scrawny bob!

I had you in the orange zone. Small pairs not playable. Sure the blinds are going up but if you fold you have some left say 10. Fold the small blind 9. Blinds up to 200/400 brings your M down to < 5. You've a clatter of hands for free until the next blind. You're allin play now is certain instead of a debate.

You had a good read on the opponent as well. The type of player would carry some weighting in my decision on how to play.

How many players were seated at your table?

[EllaGrace]

I went out 12 so six people were seated at my table. I tried to pull up the hand history but it was too fustrating on bodog, as I had to search by day, and then dig through all of them.

I knew bigstack would go all in b/c at 15,000+ chips even if he lost he'd still have plenty come final table. I remember the spread being with some guy with 5,700 being next in chips (and I unfortunately gave them to him with a flushed out straight) , everyone else had about the same as me.

I've noticed that sround this time there is alot of really tight action, not so many people bet the flop, they just go all in if they have a hand, hope to narrow the field and pump their stack before the final table of 9. This is because when you get to the final table there will be four or more people with well over 10K in chips.

That being said I won my first one of these entering the final table as short stack with 3600. I've also placed 6 which pays almost nothing entering with 12,000. So I guess, loking at the big picture, I could have folded.

Then again, watching Mr. **** Bully was driving me nutso! And i should have gone all in preflop. Maybe, just maybe his k-3 wouldn't have looked so good.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Hmm.

Lets pick up with the fold and you're in the SB, cause its defo allin from here depending on the hole cards.

You didn't like your hand 66 and you've waited for another, better one. At your table there would be five hands left before you are forced to go allin realistically.
Whats the probability you will get a set of hole cards with a higher +EV before the next blind?

First hand 17%
Second Hand 31%
Third Hand 42%
Fourth Hand 52%
Fifth Hand 60%

As you can see your chances improve with the wait and are better than not within range.
Tournaments are about survival, and this could well be a situation where you save your bacon especially with the loose player and the hand vulnerable to the flop.

Both plays are reasonable, I just prefer the fold in this situation.

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by jacks_off4me

do you remember his nickname? was it "aagtaa" ROFLOL

Jacks

I must ask Carbon if they will have me back one day soon ROFLOL

GT

[luzipher]

Originally Posted by NUCKING_FUTS_4

Hmm.

Lets pick up with the fold and you're in the SB, cause its defo allin from here depending on the hole cards.

You didn't like your hand 66 and you've waited for another, better one. At your table there would be five hands left before you are forced to go allin realistically.
Whats the probability you will get a set of hole cards with a higher +EV before the next blind?

First hand 17%
Second Hand 31%
Third Hand 42%
Fourth Hand 52%
Fifth Hand 60%

As you can see your chances improve with the wait and are better than not within range.
Tournaments are about survival, and this could well be a situation where you save your bacon especially with the loose player and the hand vulnerable to the flop.

Both plays are reasonable, I just prefer the fold in this situation.

Do you prefer to fold in this situation based in the fact that you have 60% of chances of get a higher +EV hand before the next round of blinds?
Well, let me add some comments to this argument:
Yes, I agree that you can get a better hand before the next round of blinds, but it's already true that this hand could be (as example) something like KJu and could be in a hand in that a player in UTG, with 3 times your stack, raises 3BB and the next player calls.
Where will you fill more comfortable?
In an allin holding 66 against an average hand or in an allin in the situation I described?

You need to consider other factors to decide your move, and maybe is your last chance in HU against an average hand.

[starsmyle]

I call and hope to see a flop..............There is no way if your near the bubble to push it too hard......Wait for a better hand to push around the larger stack.